Ahoy! Crabs!

Discussion in 'Invertebrates' started by GreenGo, Mar 14, 2017.

  1. GreenGo

    GreenGo Well-Known Member

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    It's actually coincidentally right where the light is that supplies light to that entire section (3-10gs). It does make sense with the bright lighting right there, but algae also requires other nutrients to thrive. A nitrogen source (Nitrate, Nitrite, or Ammonia), a carbon source (CO2), and a phosphorus source (excess food, typically) to grow / thrive. Not only that, but it also requires the trace nutrients to grow and survive.

    Depending on which one is the limiting vs excess resource depends on what I'll do. If it's excess food, well that's the mulm that I consider good for the tank. If it's CO2 / light, then I can deal with that. If nitrogen is in excess, it'll be dealt with, but if it's the limiting resource (i.e., if it's very low and stays low because everything else is more available than it) it'll be left alone.

    Think of this subject in the way of sandwich making:

    Say a sandwich requires two slices of bread, one leaf of lettuce, one slice of tomato, and 3 slices of cold cuts -
    If you have 6 slices of bread, 3 leafs of lettuce, 3 slices of tomato, and 6 slices of cold cuts, you can make 2 sandwiches. You'd have the following left over:
    • 1 slice of tomato
    • 1 leaf of lettuce
    • 2 slices of bread
    The ingredients listed above are the nutrients in excess (the ones left over that we can't use since we don't have enough to make another sandwich).

    This also works in the following scenario, where you have
    6 slices of bread, 3 leafs of lettuce, 3 slices of tomato, and 7 slices of cold cuts.

    You'd be in the same situation, just with an additional cold cut. In both cases, the cold cuts are the limiting ingredient (resource), but in the latter case you have an extra cold cut you can't do anything with.
    This is essentially what happens when trying to "make" algae (or limit it, as the case may be). You need the nutrients in the right proportions (the 'recipe'; which you can use Redfield's Ratio for that), and anything in excess will sit in the tank until the limiting nutrient becomes enough to make another cell of algae, in which case the algae will make that cell and then wait for the nutrient to replenish. These nutrients can change with time, the same as if you only had the ingredients listed above and went out to buy another package of cold cuts and not anything else (then the cold cuts would be the resource in excess, until you bought lettuce, tomato, and bread).

    It's a lot more complicated when you think of 100s of algae cells competing for each resource, and when you think of the currents in the aquarium moving those nutrients around (which can make one location more "receptive" to algae than other places, since it may have a higher concentration of one of the nutrients if it's not completely broken down, if it gets broken down in a specific area and is taken up before it has a chance to be mixed with the rest of the water, or if there's inadequate flow in an aquarium). There is also certain algae which needs other requirements met, such as reduced or extra flow, etc.

    To be certain, this is a bit more complicated than what I'm laying out here with a sandwich making class, but this is just a beginner look on the subject. The ingredients in excess are also why we need to do water changes, as too much of anything is bad. I actually got to thinking the other day that I may want to do more water changes, as each week the nutrients in excess become more.

    For example, if you went to the store each week to buy enough ingredients to make 3 sandwiches (using the above recipe, you'd be buying 9 slices of cold cuts, 6 slices of bread, 3 slices of tomato, and 3 leaves of lettuce), but you only made 2 every week, you'd eventually be overrun with sandwiches since you're always buying enough to make 3 but are only making two each week.

    This is the same with our tanks. I'm doing 25-100% water changes on each tank weekly (1 bucket is changed for each tank; initial fill is between 1-4 buckets), so the tanks with less than 100% water changes still have a portion of the nutrients in the water (akin to making 2 out of 3 possible sandwiches - 33% sandwiches left, just like between <1-75% nutrients left in my tanks). Even the 100% water change aquariums still have a bit of detritus left over after I dump them. So what happens when the nutrient production stays constant or increases due to population growth (increased feeding, increased waste for more fish)? They still eventually get overrun with nutrients and require a larger water change on occasion. I may do this every month, or every 2-3 months, I'm not sure yet.

    But this is the basics of the Redfield Ratio, and what it has to do with our aquariums. @Murago I'll try to make a post on what this has to do with different types of algae after I run several experiments when trying to culture my own, and I will clean this up a bit when I make a thread specifically on this when that time comes.
     
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  2. GreenGo

    GreenGo Well-Known Member

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    Water Params on the Endler / Green Water Colony
    Ammonia: <0.25 ppm (I couldn't tell, but it may've had something to do with the green water even though it was barely showing without light shining on it to begin with)
    Nitrite: 0 ppm
    Nitrate: ~5 ppm

    So, there's probably nothing amiss in this tank right now. I'll be testing it the next couple weeks to be sure.
     
  3. GreenGo

    GreenGo Well-Known Member

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    So, I think all the gup fry in the 10g are female. No clue how, not questioning it :p I mean, I'll still check every so often to make sure, but none have the typical male gonopodium.
     
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  4. Mbkemp

    Mbkemp Well-Known Member

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    What is your water temperature?
     
  5. GreenGo

    GreenGo Well-Known Member

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    Between 26-27 C. I can't convert it right now since I'm on break at work and need to head back
     
  6. Mbkemp

    Mbkemp Well-Known Member

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    Roughly78-80. Can you cool them down any? I’m not sure. I know my endlers are about 8-1 females at 80 degrees. I’m about to cool them a little and see what that does
     
  7. Mbkemp

    Mbkemp Well-Known Member

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  8. GreenGo

    GreenGo Well-Known Member

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    These guppies have been between 24 and 27 C, but usually between 25 and 26 C. They experienced such "extremes" due to me trying to inefficiently heat the room. My hope is that when I get the Crab Rack finished they'll be a bit cooler, maybe 24 to 25 C. It all depends how warm the room is when the Crab Rack is sitting (and staying) at 27 C.

    I may reconsider after reading the abstract of the article you linked again, but I can't hardly remember it (and I read it not even 5 minutes ago :oops: )
     
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  9. Mbkemp

    Mbkemp Well-Known Member

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    Warmer got more males. They went to 35 Celsius. Gravid females and fry did not live well st that point
     
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  10. GreenGo

    GreenGo Well-Known Member

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    Suffice it to say today was an extremely long day at work. However, I got a treat before I left, and had a good start to my (early) shift (y)
    [​IMG]
    Suffice it to say, my crabs love molting for me. I hope they love breeding even more when I get some females in Spring. :love: I can't wait to have little crablets running around :love: :love: :love: That's what makes my job bearable (or at least somewhat so). :LOL:
     
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  11. GreenGo

    GreenGo Well-Known Member

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    Well, this is a new one o_O
    [​IMG]
    I've had crabs climb into my filters before, but those were hang-on-back filters (HOBs). Now one has weaseled its way into an internal filter :confused: :love: :rolleyes: I removed all the rocks after I noticed him (before I was thinking he had climbed out :cautious: ), putting one just to keep it underwater so he could choose to climb out if he so desired. I also moved the airline to another section of the tank and put a lava rock on top of it so it would stay down. Seems I may need to crab-proof my internal filters now :LOL: If only to prevent me having a heart attack lol (j/k)
     
  12. GreenGo

    GreenGo Well-Known Member

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    NANI?! :eek:
    [​IMG]

    What could I be doing here? Find out soon on GreenGo's Got Crabs! (a non-existent reality TV Show) :sneaky:
     
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  13. Andy Sager

    Andy Sager Well-Known Member

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    Nice RACK!!!!! ;) ;) :D :LOL:
     
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  14. GreenGo

    GreenGo Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I learned from the best ;)
     
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  15. Andy Sager

    Andy Sager Well-Known Member

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    :D
     
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  16. GreenGo

    GreenGo Well-Known Member

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    Changed water on the Green Water Endler Aquarium...

    Parameters:
    • 0 ppm Ammonia.
    • negligible nitrite (when looking in direct sun through the window it was barely distinguishable from the color chart; all others were exactly the same from liquid in the test tube to color chart)
    • 0 ppm Nitrate.
    So, guess what I'm concerned with? The Algae starving. Why, oh WHY! do I care so much about the algae? I love the fish, they're very prolific for me, so why give a hoot about the Green Water? I think we all know why. :cautious:
     
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